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December 11, 2015 4:42 PM  #1


CHCH Makes Big Cuts

Very Sad (I thought this was in the rear view once Channel Zero bought CHCH)
http://globalnews.ca/news/2396083/chch-cancels-6-p-m-newscast-future-of-station-unclear-report/
 


Cheers,
Jody Thornton
 
 

December 12, 2015 8:36 PM  #2


Re: CHCH Makes Big Cuts


Cheers,
Jody Thornton
 
     Thread Starter
 

December 14, 2015 6:23 PM  #3


Re: CHCH Makes Big Cuts

I don't feel sorry for any of these people, didn't they see this coming?  Simple economics-more money out than money in-means trouble.  Of coarse they have to blame Harper for this one too:  what ever happen to the Local Programming Improvement Fund?
Let's pray Alfred E. Neuman and Lez West don't reappear on television soon?  Now all we have to do is to get rid of the weather clown with the overbight on Canada AM.
 

Last edited by GOD HELP US (December 14, 2015 6:25 PM)

 

December 14, 2015 8:24 PM  #4


Re: CHCH Makes Big Cuts

That's rather bitter sounding.  I understand your comment on the economic situation, but it's still horrible to see people unceremoniously showed the door, when they loved their jobs and put their heart into it (in some cases for thirty-plus years).  Why is it that you would not feel poorly for those shown the door?

 


Cheers,
Jody Thornton
 
     Thread Starter
 

December 15, 2015 6:49 PM  #5


Re: CHCH Makes Big Cuts

Nick Dixon was on CHML's The Bill Kelly Show this morning.
Mr. Dixon said, in response to a question (10:39 a.m.), he knew the station was in financial trouble and was surprised why people weren't let go sooner.
If I knew that the company I work for was in trouble, I would speak to the management and offer my help in turning the company around, not moan about the lack of government revenue tools.

Glad to see Nick Dixon back on CHCH; he hinted that a noon newscast is possible down the road. 
Unfortunately fart-face turned up again on Morning Live, WHY?  (Note to accounting department:  you don't need two people reading the news, Jennifer Mossop and Connie Smith proved that.)
Some of the people on Canadian TV are not likeable.
I never understood why Bill Hutchinson wasn't fired years ago.  Who would want to watch him mumbling the local news and get depressed at 11:30 at night rather than watching Kimmel or Letterman?
A lot of people don't like City's Kevin Freakish. 
Please someone at Bell Media stop Lance Brown from singing the sportscast as he does every year at Christmas.
Stop hiring those roving clown reporters (Lez, Lori, Jeff) who do those corny rehearsed stunts like falling off a wagon.
If Floyd Robertson was Canada's most trusted newsman, are we in trouble.
CTV's Lisa LaPhlegm who blamed American foreign policy for the 9-11 attacks has a love-on for Justin Trudeau, no liberal bias there.  Watch her interview with the Prime Minister on CTV at the end of year to see her melt in awe.
Note:  The Canadian Dollar is tanking and you can't blame the low oil prices.  It closed at 76.38 cents U.S. on election day, never traded above that point since.  https://www.google.ca/finance?q=CADUSD  now it's below 73.0 cents U.S.




 

 

December 16, 2015 6:31 PM  #6


Re: CHCH Makes Big Cuts

Alfred E. Neuman just can't leave us alone.  Now he's released this statement on his website.  (Why does he have a website?)
http://www.markhebscher.com/the-untimely-end-of-my-t-v-career
Why did he think his job was safe?  How arrogant is that?  And what's with the autographed Doug Gilmour picture on the wall?  http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/nhl/doug-gilmour-sends-son-packing-in-ohl-trade-1.1324338
"After all, I was pretty damn good"--good at what?"
"However, I did notice an unexpected deposit from CHCH in my bank account, and it wasn't even payday."--I'm hearing this from a lot from former employees at CHCH.  Who checks their bank account daily?
This guy is so full of himself.
P.S. Canadian Dollar still tanking...Bank of Canada expects dollar lower than 0.70 cents U.S....try below 0.67..way to go Trudeau.


 

 

December 16, 2015 7:23 PM  #7


Re: CHCH Makes Big Cuts

What is it that you have against these former CHCH personalities that you have to lash out at them so badly?  Hebscher has mentioned he was surprised that Channel Zero hadn't laid off anyone up until now.  He wondered why something hadn't happened prior to last week.  Donna Skelley has cited the same.  She even thought if something had been adressed last year (even if reorganization was in the works), it could have perhaps been better handled.

There was a lot of talent that walked out the door that day, and a lot of viewers are feeling poorly about the situation.  So as much as you may be entitled to your opinion, why are you so unsympathetic towards them?  Can you not possibly understand what they're going through right now?
 


Cheers,
Jody Thornton
 
     Thread Starter
 

December 16, 2015 8:26 PM  #8


Re: CHCH Makes Big Cuts

@Jody

I agree, it's pointless to mock the job cuts. If you work in that business have no fear they'll be coming your way sometime down the road.  

BUT..that said, I think it's fair to ask why people remain in the business.  It's now crystal clear that this is a medium in serious decline. The wins are small & the losses are huge and it's not coming back. Radio will, over time, just go extinct.  So the question should be asked; why do you stay working in the business? 

One of the major problems of people in the industry is they long seemed to believe the industry and they themselves were infallible.  Witness the pure hate towards me over the years as I pointed out that radio was dying.  I was the anti-christ of this forum and others for pointing out the short sighted stupidity that was modern radio was it's own worst enemy.  Radio's endless failures were always the fault of someone else, some external force..when in fact it was radio's own fault it was drifting to oblivion.  And many of the "Irvine" haters are now no longer employed in radio and will never be employed again.  And I genuinely feel sorry for them.  

And for the rest they just hang on.  Perhaps they feel invincible? I think of others..one who has what seems to be a half dozen casual radio jobs.  I know they're hoping for a future, but there isn't one.  Sadly, they can't see that the time to get out was a few years ago.  If you're in this business you need to give thought to the future.  What happens when you are 50 and have no prospects?  What will you do?  This is especially troublesome for those in radio who are resistant to change.  

In short, the ugly truth is one needs to prepare for the worst & have a long term view of their career.  We all do no matter what business we work in.  Change is constant and you need to adapt.  

As for CHCH, the truth is I'm actually amazed it lasted this long.  Just as I'm amazed CKCO is still kicking (or was last time I had cable TV).  But the end is coming.  And if you work in this business you should start thinking about an exit plan.  Now is a great time.  

Last edited by Hathaway (December 16, 2015 8:38 PM)

 

December 16, 2015 8:51 PM  #9


Re: CHCH Makes Big Cuts

Hey I agree with some of what you said a GREAT deal.  And as for the sentiments that you "GOD HELP US" commonly share, you expressed them MUCH MORE sympathetically.  No problems at all in disagreeing, or even being exposed to the harsh truth.  But there is a tasteful or respectful way to do it.

It took me awhile to decide to go back to the radio biz.  I'm in no way kidding myself by staking my claim on a secure retirement by working in this medium.  I know it's future poses a lot of questions.  And I'm not an ego driven or narcissistic person.  But in the rare case where I get to hear myself prerecorded and played back over an AM radio, I still tingle a bit and build a stupid looking smile.  I feel like that little boy who would listen to CKOC at night thinking, "Man I wish I could do that".  I'll spare you all the rest of the past radio glory sentiment, since I wasn't building to that anyway.  Suffice it to say, it gives me a very simple sense of happiness.

In many ways, I can't see how local news survives either with all of the other media choices, but I do hold hope for it.  CHCH does seem to connect the way a family does since it always has connected to the Hamilton area in a rather personal way.   And even if the future is dim for media outlets, I still would never disparage those that lost their jobs, and disregard what they're enduring.
 


Cheers,
Jody Thornton
 
     Thread Starter
 

December 16, 2015 10:00 PM  #10


Re: CHCH Makes Big Cuts

Jody, does CHCH really connect with local people in a personal way?  Or is that your own biased opinion in you WANTING that to happen. 

Case in point:  When Jeff Woods was fired by Corus many posted on a radio forum what a huge mistake & loss it was.  

Now, I'm not taking anything away from Jeff Woods or Alan Cross. But their realm of informational radio programming really is insignificant in this modern world.  The typical Legends of Classic Rock on Youtube averages a couple thousand views at best.  The numbers are lower for Alan Cross.  Now, I'm not saying it's BAD programming but I am saying that in this day and age it's mostly irrelevant.  There just isn't an audience for that.  The audience moved on but the radio die hards & employees didn't.  

And that's how it is for CHCH TV.  And CKCO TV.  Same for the claim of "local radio matters".  Radio has long sat on it's asses telling us all that's the key to success.  If local was the answer then every town would be littered with local pubs, restaurants, independent stores, etc.  They're not.  Local works when it's actually GREAT (and nothing less than great).  Most local radio is not great.  

Most of the outcry about the end of CHCH comes from people who either worked there or people who are die hard fans. And those squealing loudest are those that are laid off and now jobless.  But even they forget one thing.  There are hundreds of thousands of people who woke up every day, packed a lunch box and went to work only to have their jobs disappear too.  They didn't have a microphone or the media to express their fear and rage. They just disappeared into the woodwork.  

 

December 16, 2015 11:27 PM  #11


Re: CHCH Makes Big Cuts

In the case of CHCH, I would say "Yes" it does connect with a lot of people.  That's not just me fantasizing.  You just have to check out Facebook and realize there are a whole host of different types of people, in different walks of live that are mourning these changes.  These are not just die hard fans or media types at all.

While I completely get what you're saying following that, I think CHCH does stand apart from your examples.  Maybe CHEK in Victoria too.  After all, isn't it community owned? (so that's even a better example, because somebody had to care about it)
 


Cheers,
Jody Thornton
 
     Thread Starter
 

December 17, 2015 8:29 AM  #12


Re: CHCH Makes Big Cuts

Interesting.  Two days ago in my city there was a freezing rain warning. Because it's 2015, as Justin says, every media outlet treated it like it was the Apocalypse -- ALL DAY.  The people I work with have the Radio on in the background. I'm "meh" about what they chose. They listen to various stations, all playing Adele several times a night and all VT. Except one.  And that station happened to be the one they chose that night. Around 8 o'clock the jock says, "The freezing rain warning has been canceled!".  If they are all playing the same thing anyway, I'm choosing the station where the guy eased my mind that night by being LIVE and LOCAL. 

Hathaway is right however, as usual... it's all over. Any life we're seeing is a "dead cat bounce".

Get out while you can and while you can reinvent yourself.

 

 

December 17, 2015 4:32 PM  #13


Re: CHCH Makes Big Cuts

@Jody.  

Tell me why CHCH is so treasured & such a huge part of the community?  And if it is why (outside of former employees) is there almost no rallying around it?  Canadians are passive types but they will rally around something they believe in. 

Truth is, I believe the whole "local is important" thing is just something radio & media parrots to each other.  THEY claim their importance to the local community.  Rarely does the local community ever say how important their media is to the community.  Because the truth is it's really not.  Exactly how is most media "local". Because it gives you traffic and weather (superior options exist on line and more are coming).  Because it employs local people?  Because on occasion it does some charitable act but all the while expects massive promotion of the "good it does"?  

Sorry, most media is not local.  

The radio that is local are the micro-stations that truly represent their community or a culture. Grand 92.9 is a "local" station.  G98.7 is a "local station" (local being a local community, not a town).  Whistler FM is a local radio station.  Go work in Whistler and listen to that station.  You'll feel the community before you even go out in it.  It reflects what Whistler is.  Or, out my way in Banff (and Canmore) there is the Rocky Mountain Outlook. It's a local newspaper that's still flourishing and full of ads. It's truly local but almost ALL of the content is local (www.rmoutlook.com).  Local isn't relegated to a section, it starts on page 1 and goes through to page 88. And, around Banff, it's everywhere and people still read an actual newspaper (me included).  Or there is VanCityBuzz, an online outlet in Vancouver which is truly local. 

The only major broadcasting outlet that comes even close to being truly local is CBC Radio 1 (and only the radio).  Interestingly, the only major broadcaster who elicits a reaction when change is made is the CBC.  That's because the CBC has wisely nurtured loyal fans.  And their numbers are growing too much to the chagrin of angry old white men who had the opportunity to do something better & couldn't. One day, in the distance future, the only thing left on the radio dial will be a local booming AM news talk powerhouse, a CHYM style station and CBC.  The rest will be gone.  

A sense of community is part of the fabric of humankind. It will always exist. People like being part of a community of some sort.  But you erroneously believe that radio is the source of community. It was, but it's not anymore. Go to any urban community and ask the residents what makes their community.  Exactly ZERO will say "the radio station".  

Edit:  Roundhouse Radio in Vancouver is a good example of local radio & it's brand new. Good luck to them.  Van rocks.  

Last edited by Hathaway (December 17, 2015 4:34 PM)

 

December 17, 2015 4:38 PM  #14


Re: CHCH Makes Big Cuts

PS. The real piss off of the whole CHCH layoff thing is that the staff don't get any severance pay. That's the real story.  Once again the lowly worker ant gets shafted by a corporation (even if it is independent).  

 

December 17, 2015 9:46 PM  #15


Re: CHCH Makes Big Cuts

Hathaway wrote:

PS. The real piss off of the whole CHCH layoff thing is that the staff don't get any severance pay. That's the real story.  Once again the lowly worker ant gets shafted by a corporation (even if it is independent).  

At the end of the day, that was the only thing I was criticizing about comments being made by GOD HELP US.  The former employees do deserve some sympathy, and what they're enduring is quite difficult I'm sure.
 


Cheers,
Jody Thornton
 
     Thread Starter
 

December 17, 2015 10:51 PM  #16


Re: CHCH Makes Big Cuts

One point is that often radio folk blame the "big media" for the failures of radio yet almost idolize the independent owners. This is a good reminder that it's not always the case.  Capitalism is a great thing until it's not a great thing. Then everyone hates it. 

But for a minute I'll play devils advocate and be the "common man". You may not like God Help Us' opinion but do consider they could reflect the opinion of the common man.  Hamilton & Ontario have lost hundreds of thousands of working class jobs in the past 10 years. Some of those people spent their lives doing a hard physical days work only to have their jobs & future wiped away.  And a guy in broadcasting has the ability to switch careers easier than some blue collar guy who worked the coke oven at Stelco (or whatever it's called now) and gets laid off at 52.  

It's sort of a Hamilton version of that Dire Straits song - Money for Nothing.  How often did media do a story on "Al" who got laid off, had to sell everything and readjust to a new $16 dollar an hour life?  I don't blame "Al" for not giving a single fuck about some rich media guy who got laid off AND had a platform to espouse his opinions about it.  

Last edited by Hathaway (December 17, 2015 10:52 PM)

 

December 18, 2015 12:49 PM  #17


Re: CHCH Makes Big Cuts

John McCallum, Liberal cabinet minister for Jody's Thornhill riding expects to house 25,000 refugees from Fort McMurray by year end.   It's a busy time

 

December 18, 2015 1:50 PM  #18


Re: CHCH Makes Big Cuts

Eldon wrote:

John McCallum, Liberal cabinet minister for Jody's Thornhill riding expects to house 25,000 refugees from Fort McMurray by year end.   It's a busy time

Perhaps Channel Zero will hire them. They work cheap and aren't in a union.

 

December 18, 2015 1:56 PM  #19


Re: CHCH Makes Big Cuts

Eldon wrote:

John McCallum, Liberal cabinet minister for Jody's Thornhill riding expects to house 25,000 refugees from Fort McMurray by year end.   It's a busy time

I don't know what the Syrian refugee situation has to do with CHCH, but didn't Thornhill elect a conservative?  I voted NDP for what it's worth.

Edit:  There does seem to be an inconsistency here.  Peter Kent was elected Conservative (one of the only ones voted in the GTA) in Thornhill, but John McCallum seems to be respresenting Markham-Thornhill (???)
 

Last edited by Jody Thornton (December 18, 2015 2:01 PM)


Cheers,
Jody Thornton
 
     Thread Starter
 

December 18, 2015 2:33 PM  #20


Re: CHCH Makes Big Cuts

Nothing to do with Syrian refugees; these are all Albertan refugees

Boundary changes in Peter Kent's old riding; more government bureaucrats needed to handle the flow of Albertan refugees

 

December 18, 2015 4:50 PM  #21


Re: CHCH Makes Big Cuts

Eldon wrote:

Nothing to do with Syrian refugees; these are all Albertan refugees

Your statement is incorrect.  They are not Alberta refugees.  They are refugees from Ontario and the East Coast who are technically returning to their homeland.  Accuracy is important. 
 

 

December 18, 2015 6:17 PM  #22


Re: CHCH Makes Big Cuts

First, I must mention this.  The next time you hear John McCallum speak, close your eyes and picture him staggering in a bar.  He sounds like he's had one too many.
Second,  maybe it would be better if CHCH LP were to continue to sink into deeper debt.  Then there would be no television station and everybody would lose their jobs.
Third, I hope the auditors didn't take the teleprompters out the building.  The news readers would be lost without them just like Obama.
Fourth, didn't Brian woods use to call bingo numbers on CHCH?  Where's the dignity?
Fifth, I find it funny that Alfred E. Neuman is now a supporter of unions after years of bashing them on Square Off during the Dalton years.
P.S. The Canadian dollar continues to tank towards the all time low of $0.6179 US (January 21, 2002).  Who would want to invest in this country with our Prime Minister bashing not only big business, but small business too?
P.S. #2, S&P downgrades Alberta's credit rating, and it's not because of the low oil prices but rather of its high spending and the new carbon tax scheme.



 

Last edited by GOD HELP US (December 20, 2015 4:29 PM)

 

December 18, 2015 6:24 PM  #23


Re: CHCH Makes Big Cuts

Are we at the end of the world or is this a once in a lifetime buying opportunity?
 

 

December 18, 2015 8:52 PM  #24


Re: CHCH Makes Big Cuts

To GOD HELP US...
I think it's unfair, and absurd to pick on John McCallum because of his speech pattern.
The newsreaders do what all other newsreaders do in 2015...They use the technology available to them. And, yup. Obama uses it, too.
So what if Brian Woods called bingo numbers? I've had a number of conversations with a local guy named Bill Inkol, who augmented a fine career with "Bowling For Dollars". His stories would leave you laughing for hours.
I have been in radio (because I'm too ugly for TV) for over 30 years. I have no idea if you've ever worked in radio or TV.
If you haven't been in the business, I can understand your foolery as an outsider.
If you've been on the inside, I can't understand why you'd want to crap in someone else's backyard.
None of us do that.    
 

 

December 19, 2015 6:10 PM  #25


Re: CHCH Makes Big Cuts

@CDP.  Are you referring to oil & gas

@GodHelpUs

The declining Canadian dollar has nothing to do with Trudeau & everything to do with declining oil prices. It's a petro-currency. A small decline is likely due to the US Fed raising interest rates a tiny bit.  The dollar has been in decline long before Trudeau was even on people's radar.  

As for Alberta's credit rating being downgraded, it wouldn't matter who was at the helm of the province. When Prentice was in power, he made it clear they'd have a 5 billion dollar deficit. I'm not supporter or fan of the whole banking cartel but it's not hard to rationalize the cut.  Alberta is & always has been an economy built around fossil fuels. At this moment and for the near & even mid term future oil & natural gas prices (especially natural gas prices) will remain very low.  World production is at an all time high and it's either Iran or Iraq about to come online with up to 3 million barrels a day.  You'll likely see 30 dollar oil before you see even 60 dollar oil.  And FYI, that "35 dollar" barrel is WTI, not Western Canadian Select.  It's even lower. 

And why so miserable and glum, chum?  Is the low dollar affecting your snowbird trip or is CFRB off the air.  

 

December 20, 2015 9:05 AM  #26


Re: CHCH Makes Big Cuts

A plane load from Steve Harper International Terminal (S.H.I.T.) landed at Pearson yesterday.   If Alberta refugees expect to be accepted in K/W they must start dressing like us. No more 10 gallon hats. No more cowboy boots.  And stop drawling like Ralph Klein    

 

December 22, 2015 8:47 PM  #27


Re: CHCH Makes Big Cuts

@CDP

You've never been to Fort Mac, have you?  Much of the entire population of Fort Mac was folks from the Maritimes. None of them wear 10 gallon hats or boots (just like they don't in Calgary or Edmonton).  You know, Muslim Mayor, NDP government, carbon tax.  This ain't your Dad's (Or Geo's or Ms C's) Alberta.  Vancouver changed too.  They even have FM radio now.  

Jody:

I went online and I went looking for a CHCH "petition".  I couldn't find one. I searched for Mark Hebscher. Nothing. Again, more evidence that outside of a few old timers it's insignificant. 

Local radio and media has a future Jody, but it's in the "micro" capacity. The future of local radio is the small, independent & non profit local station. The major players simply aren't interested in producing anything but the cheapest, most generic product that costs the least to run. Local radio requires people who live in the area & aren't there as a stop over to their next big gig.  

But you see, there is the kicker.  Local radio is of no interest to the majors NOR is of interest to the broadcasters who need a job. What's a morning gig pay at Grand 101.1, Whistler FM, G98.7, etc.  I'm guessing it's not anywhere what even a medium market pays.  Let me ask you something Jody.  Let's say Whistler FM offered you a job on their station.  It paid 50K a year for mornings and you'll probably be required to be "always on" for the station at all times.  You'll move to Whistler, be lucky to get a small apartment & you'll walk everywhere. You'll get a pittance salary compared to the majors BUT you'll be an integral part of a community where you'll actually know the people who serve you.  

Would you do it?  How many people would do that?  The answer is not that many because not that many people are.  Yet they are all shouting about how important local radio is.  

 

 

December 23, 2015 9:58 AM  #28


Re: CHCH Makes Big Cuts

"give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses, the wretched refuse of your tarry sands.    Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me"

K. Wynne

 

January 2, 2016 5:00 PM  #29


Re: CHCH Makes Big Cuts

CHCH built a huge audience with "Local News" for Niagara, Hamilton, Halton and if they're failing now it's only because they don't know how to sell it properly!
CHUM took over CITY TV when Moses was failing miserably at generating income.  This isn't the 70's or 80's anymore and there are other choices.  Still CHCH has an audience.  Maybe the employees should give Channel Zero their $12 back, bankrupt the old debt and take over the channel.  It still has life left in it!
I know, because I can't go anywhere in Hamilton/Niagara that people don't recognize me from "Square Off".

 

January 3, 2016 1:15 PM  #30


Re: CHCH Makes Big Cuts

@Mark

Maybe it's not that they're selling it properly, maybe advertisers simply are past the stage of wanting to spend (large) sums on local television advertising? Perhaps they feel there is no value in it?

And it's possible that the audience just isn't that engaged? I could pick Tara Nelson or David Spence out of a crowd (they're the anchor and weather for CTV News).  I watched CTV News in Calgary on an almost daily basis. Do I respect them as broadcasters? Definitely. 

But I don't watch anymore.  You see, I cancelled my cable in 2015. Now, I live in a mountain town with a CTV repeater. I have a HD antenna in my storage area of my condo. 6 months after the fact I still haven't bothered to unpack it.  The reason is simple; I really don't give a shit that much about watching the local news.  Yet, many local issues matter to me.

The dirty little secret is that a great deal of audience for modern media is really not that engaged (as many aren't for radio). The relationship is very casual and disposable.  A great deal of modern media falls into that category.

Now, as for the defenders of media, allow me to speak professionally.  When working as an investigator or intelligence analyst you are trained to be careful of tunnel vision. You are, of course, passionate and engaged with your job. You want to get the bad guy. And surprisingly it is actually rather easy to draw out "conclusions" based on circumstantial evidence.  Tunnel vision.  When Kim Rossmo told the VPD there was a serial killer, the VPD didn't believe it because they believed the evidence at hand proved there wasn't.  Rossmo was later turfed (a famous criminologist) and then a creepy guy named Robert William Pickton was picked up and charged with 21 counts of murder. 

Now, obviously radio or TV isn't criminology, but the defenders of said stations, etc are much like the authorities with tunnel vision.  The thought mentality is exactly the same. Radio & TV folks WANT to believe something. So they will craft their answer and their "proof" to fit the needs of their opinion.  And that is what this board and SOWNY is about. 
 

Last edited by Hathaway (January 3, 2016 1:16 PM)

 

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